Well said about knowing the person. It's like data is just a bunch of meaningless stuff until it's applied.
A chart is just a snapshot of a date and time until it's applied to a person (country, event, etc)
I remember the post and how I was torn between feeling bad for his childhood and wondering if maybe his mother looked into his baby eyes and saw the emptiness we see today. Terrifying thought.
I don't think there's a problem with "being mean to Mark" but there can be an issue of implying things about other regular humans who might share the same planetary aspects. To me, that's where it can get tricky and maybe call for a bit more balance when interpreting. Not that I care, I'm just flipping this on its side.
Yes, Michael mentioned something like this in his comment, about checking the date of birth and trying to apply it to other 'noteworthy' individuals, as if some corollary would show up.
When an astrologer engages with an individual in a chart 'reading' the happening is akin to an artist painting a portrait of a model that's sitting before her.
It's an event strictly defined by the synergy between the two people (astrologer and client). And it is a one-off that's contingent on BOTH psyches and fitting only that exchange and THAT horoscope.
I'm reminded of quantum physics where the observer influences the manner in which particles are interpreted, how reality alters based on observation. This makes the horoscopic moment NON-static and very much alive and in flux -- which is another reason I dislike working with traditional astrology's rules and formulas. We are human beings, not etched-in-stone phenomenon.
When interpreting a chart /without/ the presence and dialogue, a different kind of interpretation takes place, one that is confined to the public sphere and the aura or impression a person generates within the atmosphere of the collective.
My manner of working with students is focused primarily on reading charts this way in the beginning. And it prepares them for the personal work they will do with friends, family and clients.
Public figures leave indelible marks in the culture, and those trails and tracks can be traced directly in the birth chart, which is why this, for me, is such an important teaching method.
I think I see what you're saying, and I agree. Natal chart interpretation is a way of constructing personal history, it's a harmony between the person, the interpreter and the chart. In this case, it's between Mark and his influence as a public figure, you and his chart. Hopefully this doesn't mean my son with a sun in Scorpio/moon in Taurus is destined to become a scary billionaire, ha.
The most interesting thing to me is how people did not want to be publicly identified with their opinions about MZ. I doubt he cares...super wealthy and powerful people just don't care.
The analogy with interpreting a chart and an artist is a fitting one. Hans Holbein's portraits of Elizabethans are amazing. Forget about the Henry VIII painting, though that is revealing. Take a look at his portrait of Thomas Cromwell, Henry VIII's "fixer". If you don't know anything about Tudor history, see if you can come to some conclusions before you Wikipedia him.
One other thing about the astrologer cum artist. Holbein's portrait of Anne of Cleves, Henry VIII's 4th wife who he divorced after just 5 months, is accurate. Henry complained that "She is nothing so fair as she hath been reported." But I believe there are other reasons related to the circumstances of their initial encounter, and Henry's health issues. The point is, same technique, same interpretation, same artist, same...art. What do you see when you look at Holbein's "reading" of Henry VIII, Thomas Cromwell, Anne of Cleves, MZ's (I dare not speaketh his name) chart and that face shot of him looking straight at you?
Well said about knowing the person. It's like data is just a bunch of meaningless stuff until it's applied.
A chart is just a snapshot of a date and time until it's applied to a person (country, event, etc)
I remember the post and how I was torn between feeling bad for his childhood and wondering if maybe his mother looked into his baby eyes and saw the emptiness we see today. Terrifying thought.
Wow! That image of mother and infant. Again, heartbreaking.
I don't think there's a problem with "being mean to Mark" but there can be an issue of implying things about other regular humans who might share the same planetary aspects. To me, that's where it can get tricky and maybe call for a bit more balance when interpreting. Not that I care, I'm just flipping this on its side.
Yes, Michael mentioned something like this in his comment, about checking the date of birth and trying to apply it to other 'noteworthy' individuals, as if some corollary would show up.
When an astrologer engages with an individual in a chart 'reading' the happening is akin to an artist painting a portrait of a model that's sitting before her.
It's an event strictly defined by the synergy between the two people (astrologer and client). And it is a one-off that's contingent on BOTH psyches and fitting only that exchange and THAT horoscope.
I'm reminded of quantum physics where the observer influences the manner in which particles are interpreted, how reality alters based on observation. This makes the horoscopic moment NON-static and very much alive and in flux -- which is another reason I dislike working with traditional astrology's rules and formulas. We are human beings, not etched-in-stone phenomenon.
When interpreting a chart /without/ the presence and dialogue, a different kind of interpretation takes place, one that is confined to the public sphere and the aura or impression a person generates within the atmosphere of the collective.
My manner of working with students is focused primarily on reading charts this way in the beginning. And it prepares them for the personal work they will do with friends, family and clients.
Public figures leave indelible marks in the culture, and those trails and tracks can be traced directly in the birth chart, which is why this, for me, is such an important teaching method.
I think I see what you're saying, and I agree. Natal chart interpretation is a way of constructing personal history, it's a harmony between the person, the interpreter and the chart. In this case, it's between Mark and his influence as a public figure, you and his chart. Hopefully this doesn't mean my son with a sun in Scorpio/moon in Taurus is destined to become a scary billionaire, ha.
Of course not.
No, I know, that was me trying to be funny :)
The most interesting thing to me is how people did not want to be publicly identified with their opinions about MZ. I doubt he cares...super wealthy and powerful people just don't care.
The analogy with interpreting a chart and an artist is a fitting one. Hans Holbein's portraits of Elizabethans are amazing. Forget about the Henry VIII painting, though that is revealing. Take a look at his portrait of Thomas Cromwell, Henry VIII's "fixer". If you don't know anything about Tudor history, see if you can come to some conclusions before you Wikipedia him.
One other thing about the astrologer cum artist. Holbein's portrait of Anne of Cleves, Henry VIII's 4th wife who he divorced after just 5 months, is accurate. Henry complained that "She is nothing so fair as she hath been reported." But I believe there are other reasons related to the circumstances of their initial encounter, and Henry's health issues. The point is, same technique, same interpretation, same artist, same...art. What do you see when you look at Holbein's "reading" of Henry VIII, Thomas Cromwell, Anne of Cleves, MZ's (I dare not speaketh his name) chart and that face shot of him looking straight at you?
Just for shits and giggles I'm going to have a gander at his chart (as unbiased as possible). Haaaa!
Also, I'm with you on your deft interpretation on his chart, for whatever that is worth.
🖤